PBS NewsHour full episode October 11, 2019

JUDY WOODRUFF: Good evening. I’m Judy Woodruff. On the “NewsHour” tonight: pushed out by the
president. The former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine testifies
that President Trump pressured the State Department to remove her based on false information. Then: one-on-one. President Obama’s National Security Adviser
Susan Rice on her new book and conflicting messages from the current White House. Plus: following the winding trail to Tippet
Rise , a sprawling open air arts center tucked away in the shadow of Montana’s Beartooth
Mountains. JOHN LUTHER ADAMS, Composer: It’s my hope
that somebody from a ranch nearby may come and hear this lyrical response to these hills,
to this land that is their home, and go back out and hear it and see it a little differently. JUDY WOODRUFF: And it’s Friday. Mark Shields and David Brooks are here to
analyze the Turkish incursion into Northern Syria and the president’s tumultuous week,
as the impeachment inquiry charges ahead. All that and more on tonight’s “PBS NewsHour.” (BREAK) JUDY WOODRUFF: Forced out. The former American ambassador to Ukraine
tells lawmakers that President Trump pressed to have her fired. Lisa Desjardins breaks down how her testimony
is the latest twist in the escalating impeachment inquiry. LISA DESJARDINS: From her first steps on Capitol
Hill today, former Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch entered and added to a political
drama. The career diplomat arrived even after the
State Department told her last night she wasn’t permitted to speak to lawmakers voluntarily. The solution? House Democrats quickly issued a subpoena,
allowing her to say she was legally compelled to attend. Yovanovitch was recalled from her post in
May, amidst charges from Rudy Giuliani and in conservative media that she had spoken
against the president. She blasted back at those ideas in her opening
remarks behind closed doors today. Multiple news outlets obtained them. She said her removal was based on — quote
— “unfounded and false claims.” And Yovanovitch said: “The State Department
has been attacked and hollowed out from within.” And if the diplomatic corps is not rebuilt,”
she fears that will harm our nation’s interests, perhaps irreparably. Yovanovitch is central to much of the impeachment
investigation. Her ousting was cited in the whistle-blower’s
complaint at the heart of that inquiry. During the July 25 phone call that triggered
that complaint, President Trump spoke out against her to Ukrainian President Volodymyr
Zelensky. He said — quote — “The woman was bad news”
and added: “She’s going to go through some things.” And, according to an indictment handed up
yesterday, also working to remove her were Igor Fruman and Lev Parnas, two men who say
they were working for Rudy Giuliani and the president. The federal indictment charges, Parnas’ efforts
to remove the ambassador — that’s Yovanovitch — were conducted, at least in part, at the
request of one or more Ukrainian officials. Also today, news that Gordon Sondland will
testify next week. Sondland is the ambassador to the E.U., and
text messages show he was involved in discussions about President Trump and what he wanted from
Ukraine. Last night, Mr. Trump campaigned in Minneapolis,
leveling more criticism at his opponents in Congress. DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States:
These are bad people. My phone call, as an example, with the president
of Ukraine was perfect. LISA DESJARDINS: The president rallied supporters,
telling them their views are at stake. DONALD TRUMP: They want to erase your vote,
like it never existed. They want to erase your voice, and they want
to erase your future. (BOOING) LISA DESJARDINS: The president is holding
another rally tonight in Louisiana. JUDY WOODRUFF: And Lisa is here with me now,
along with our own Yamiche Alcindor, who has been tracking today’s developments from the
White House. So, Lisa, let’s go back to Ambassador — former
Ambassador Yovanovitch. Tell us again who she is. And what more do we know about what she said
today? LISA DESJARDINS: Well, she is still with the
State Department, so, in doing this, she was kind of bucking the high command, although
getting a subpoena to her gave her a legal reason for showing up. I’m going to come back to that. But her statement, Judy, was extraordinary
on a few levels. She also fired back and said she has never,
for example, met Hunter Biden. She never advocated on behalf of Hillary Clinton
or President Obama, as some of her critics have alleged. And, Judy, she went on to lay out her suspicion
that the reason she was being pushed out by some — I think she’s implying Rudy Giuliani’s
associates — was for their financial interests. She says she was fighting corruption in Ukraine
and that that was a problem for some who were trying to make use of that corruption for
their own financial gain. Judy, she’s also says she’s incredulous over
the fact she was removed overall. This is all very important also for two other
reasons. One, she’s laying out a case here about corruption
potentially within the Trump administration. Two, Judy, she submitted to this subpoena. She complied with the subpoena. The more that Trump administration officials
don’t do that, and some like her do comply, Democrats will try and build a case for obstruction
of justice for that. JUDY WOODRUFF: So much. Yamiche, you have been talking to folks at
the White House. What are they saying in their defense? And what do they see as their strategy going
forward here? YAMICHE ALCINDOR: Well, President Trump is
really pushing back on the ambassador’s claims that he personally was pushing to have her
removed from her post. Today on the White House lawn, the president
said: I don’t know this woman. I’m sure she’s wonderful, but I have nothing
to do with her. So the president is trying to put distance
between himself and the ambassador’s claims. Now, Stephen Miller, the president’s senior
adviser, was out today speaking to reporters today. And he told us that he really believes that
this is all part of partisan hatred toward the president. So their strategy really is to say that the
Democrats are doing this because they don’t want the president to be in office, they want
to overturn the 2016 election. So, it’s a lot of messaging from the White
House on that front. But Democrats, of course, push back and say
that that’s not what this is about. This is about getting to the truth. Add to that Stephen Miller, when asked over
and over again whether or not he would personally comply with a subpoena to testify before the
House, he said, I don’t want to answer and refused to answer. And when the president was asked, well, what
do you make of Ambassador Sondland coming next week and Ambassador Yovanovitch coming
today, he said — kind of shrugged his fingers and said, you know what, I don’t like anybody
testifying. I don’t want anyone to testify. So the White House’s strategy still is to
try to block people from testifying and to try to not comply with any document requests. But the president, in some ways, is still
stuck in this position where ambassadors can come and say that they are legally obligated
to come before the House. JUDY WOODRUFF: So, Lisa, what are at this
point the next steps for the Democrats in Congress? LISA DESJARDINS: Democrats just in the last
hour got off a conference call, House Democrats, with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Intelligence
Chairman Adam Schiff, talking about their messaging. Remember, Congress comes back next week. So the dynamics are going to be critical when
lawmakers from both parties return. They want to have a serious look at impeachment. They’re still going to try and get out that
they’re working on other issues. They want that to be part of the narrative. It’s going to be difficult when you’re talking
about impeachment, but they’re going to try. Judy, something else going on today, I have
learned and some others have reported as well that House Republicans have a new concern
about the president. And they are moving on it. And it has to do with Turkey. House Republicans are joining with House Democrats
on the Foreign Affairs Committee to propose some legislation that would sanction Turkey. This would be beyond what the president and
the treasury secretary have been talking to. It would be much sharper sanctions. This would be a rebuke of the president’s
policies. We’re waiting now for that legislation. JUDY WOODRUFF: And speaking of Turkey, Yamiche,
we saw that the treasury secretary, Steven Mnuchin, announced today that they are putting
in place sanctions that they could impose on Turkey down the line. What do we know about that, the thinking that
went into this? YAMICHE ALCINDOR: Well, both Steve Mnuchin
and the president both say that these are authorized sanctions, but they are not actually
issuing these sanctions. So, this is really the Trump administration
and President Trump himself responding to that bipartisan criticism that Lisa is talking
about. The president feels as though his party is
definitely making noise about this and sustained noise about this. So he wants to say, look, if Turkey gets out
of line, we have something ready to do that. On the White House lawn, the president said,
I’m ready to wipe out Turkey’s entire economy, if needed. That said, when the administration is pushed
to say, well, how is this going to help the Kurds and how is this going to help people,
our former allies, who are now fearing for their lives, they said, well, it’s a complicated
military situation there, and we can’t really answer that question. So the president’s really trying his best
here to try to deal with some of this criticism. But most people are saying that these do not
go far enough. And, obviously, as you can see, in the House,
and in Congress, lawmakers themselves are banding together to do even more than the
president is doing. JUDY WOODRUFF: Again, so much to follow. It has been an extraordinary week. Yamiche Alcindor, Lisa Desjardins, thank you
both. In the day’s other news: The U.S. has reached
a partial trade deal with China, after a 15-month-long trade war. President Trump agreed to suspend a $250 billion
tariff hike on Chinese goods that was set to go into effect Tuesday. In turn, China pledged to buy up to $50 billion
in U.S. agricultural products. The president announced the progress this
afternoon. DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States:
So, now we’re getting it papered. And I don’t think it should be a problem getting
it papered. I think that China wants it badly, and so
we want it also, and we should be able to get that done over the next four weeks. JUDY WOODRUFF: But the world’s two biggest
economies will delay any decisions on more contentious issues, like U.S. claims that
China is forcing countries to turn over trade secrets in exchange for access to the Chinese
market. They plan to address those outstanding issues
in future negotiations. Word of the partial U.S.-China trade deal
sent stocks soaring on Wall Street. The Dow Jones industrial average jumped 320
points to close at 26816. The Nasdaq rose 106, and the S&P 500 added
32. More than 100,000 people are under evacuation
orders as a wildfire rages in Southern California. So far, 1,000 firefighters have been deployed
along the northern edge of Los Angeles. At least two people have died. The Saddleridge fire started raging overnight,
fueled by strong Santa Ana winds. Planes dropped fire-retardant chemicals on
the flames. Officials urged residents to heed orders to
leave. RALPH TERRAZAS, Los Angeles Fire Chief: This
is a very dynamic fire. The public can help us by listening to police
officers and firefighter directions, especially when we’re talking about evacuations. Do not wait to leave. If we ask you to evacuate, please evacuate. JUDY WOODRUFF: Southern California utility
Edison turned off electricity for about 20,000 people. It warned that thousands more could be affected. Meanwhile, in Northern California, the lights
were back on for more than a million people impacted by planned outages. But Pacific Gas and Electric said that more
than 300,000 customers were still without power. Fire officials reported that a man who relied
on oxygen died 12 minutes after losing electricity. The casualties are mounting on both sides,
as Turkish forces advance farther into Northeast Syria. Turkey claims to have killed more than 300
Kurdish fighters. About 100,000 civilians have been forced to
flee. Meanwhile, two car bombs exploded in the Kurdish-controlled
urban center of Qamishli, a city that has been heavily shelled by Turkish troops. Lindsey Hilsum of Independent Television News
was there today, and filed this report. LINDSEY HILSUM: Qamishli was calm until this
week. The war was over. People dared to think peace might last. This was the scene today, after a massive
explosion in a different part of town. At first, people thought it was another mortar. There have been three days of attacks now. We arrived about an hour later, as the smoke
began to clear and the damage became evident. This wasn’t a rocket, but a car bomb, the
vehicle that carried it utterly destroyed. This is right in the middle of Qamishli. People don’t know exactly what happened. There was an explosion, they said. And you can see, it must have been huge. See all the damage that’s been done. Qamishli was peaceful, but people are now
afraid of two things. They’re afraid of the Turks attacking, and
they’re afraid that there may be sleeper cells of the Islamic State here in the town. The car bomb was most likely planted by fighters
from I.S., Da’esh, as they call it, who went underground when the caliphate was defeated
earlier this year. Now Kurdish forces are too busy fighting the
Turks to track and catch terrorists. MAN (through translator): We want Europe to
hear our voice. And Trump, who abandoned us, we fought Da’esh
side by side with his soldiers, and now he just pulls out his troops and left us alone. Let Trump hear us. LINDSEY HILSUM: They know they can’t defeat
Turkey alone. JUDY WOODRUFF: That report from Lindsey Hilsum
of Independent Television News. The Pentagon announced today that it will
send nearly 2,000 additional troops to Saudi Arabia to help protect against Iran. That is in spite of President Trump’s recent
pledge to reduce the U.S. presence in the Middle East. The U.S. will also move several dozen fighter
jets and other air defenses. U.S. Defense Secretary Mark Esper announced
the deployment. MARK ESPER, U.S. Defense Secretary: Iran’s
attempts to use terror, intimidation and military force to advance its interests are inconsistent
with international norms. Saudi Arabia is a longstanding security partner
in the Middle East, and has asked for additional support to supplement their own defenses and
defend the international rules-based order. JUDY WOODRUFF: The troops will join more than
10,000 American service members who are already deployed across the Middle East. A super typhoon is barreling towards Japan
today, threatening to dump as much as 30 inches of rain. It is expected to make landfall south of Tokyo
tomorrow. In the meantime, grocery stores in the capital
city were packed, as people stocked up on last-minute supplies. Elsewhere, residents on Oshima Island boarded
up their homes and shops. In Ecuador, anti-government protests against
a fuel price hike ground the capital city to a standstill for another day. At least five demonstrators have been killed
in the last week of unrest. Protesters in Quito threw rocks at police,
who then fired back with tear gas and rubber bullets. One demonstrator insisted that their strike
will continue until their demands are met. LUIS VARGAS, President, Confederation of Indigenous
Nationalities (through translator): We are not going to stop until we reach our goal. But, right now, we are being repressed. They are killing us with these weapons. These are not rubber bullets. These are real bullets, bullets that kill
people. JUDY WOODRUFF: Government operations have
been moved outside of the capital, but Ecuador’s president has refused to step down. The gunman who attempted to attack a German
synagogue Wednesday has now confessed to carrying out the shooting, and he acknowledged being
motivated by anti-Semitic views. The rampage happened on Yom Kippur, Judaism’s
holiest day. The attacker was unable to enter the synagogue’s
locked doors, and, instead, he fatally shot two bystanders outside. He faces two counts of murder and seven counts
of attempted murder. A new report out today has found that Boeing
withheld key information about its 737 MAX plane from pilots and safety officials. The panel of international aviation regulators
also found that the Federal Aviation Administration lacked the expertise to review the plane’s
automated flight control system that is linked to two deadly crashes this year. The 737 MAX is grounded while Boeing works
on software updates. Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders said today
that his recent heart attack has made him more aware of the need for quality, affordable
health care. Sanders, who is seeking the Democratic presidential
nomination, suffered a heart attack last week. The 78-year-old spoke to reporters today outside
his Vermont home, where he’s been recovering. SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), Presidential Candidate:
My recent heart attack has made me think even more about health care. This is America, and you have millions of
people today who are sick, who have symptoms, who are not going to the doctor because they
are fearful of the incredible medical bills they’re going to receive. JUDY WOODRUFF: Sanders said that he will attend
next week’s Democratic primary debate in Ohio. It will be his first public event since his
heart attack. And the Washington Mystics are celebrating
today after winning their first-ever Women’s National Basketball Association championship. Congratulations. Still to come on the “NewsHour”: how Ethiopia’s
prime minister made peace with his neighbors and won the Nobel Prize; one-on-one with Former
National Security Adviser Susan Rice; plus, Mark Shields and David Brooks break down a
week’s worth of impeachment news. Now to an inspiring story that won the Nobel
Peace Prize. In their official announcement today, the
Nobel Committee listed a series of accomplishments for Ethiopia’s Prime Minister Abiy Ahmed,
all achieved in his first 100 days in office. Amna Nawaz has the story. AMNA NAWAZ: That’s right, Judy. But his most significant accomplishment was
in making peace with neighboring Eritrea soon after he became prime minister last April. The two countries had been at war for two
decades in a bitter border conflict that drove hundreds of thousands of people into exile
or internal displacement. They now have diplomatic relations, and many
families kept apart by war were reunited last year, after the first commercial flight between
the two nations in 20 years. Now, Prime Minister Abiy has a doctorate degree
in peacemaking and served as a U.N. peacekeeper in Rwanda after the 1994 genocide. For more on who he is, I’m joined by Salih
Booker. He’s the president and CEO of the Center for
International Policy, and he served as director of Africa studies at the Council on Foreign
Relations. Welcome back to the “NewsHour.” SALIH BOOKER, President and CEO, Center for
International Policy: Thank you for having me. AMNA NAWAZ: So, Prime Minister Abiy, he is
just 43 years old. Tell us about him. SALIH BOOKER: Well, he is the youngest head
of state in any African country. He was the child of a mixed marriage, in religious
and ethnic terms. His father was a Muslim Oromo, his mother
an Orthodox Christian Amhara. So, at a very young age, he learned the value
of tolerance and understanding across religious and ethnic divides and, later, socioeconomic
divides. He joined the rebellion against the autocratic
Marxist regime as a teenager. And around the time of the fall of Mengistu
in ’91, he then became — got formal training, became a soldier in ’93. And, of course, as you mentioned, he was served
as a U.N. peacekeeper in Rwanda after the genocide. He did his first degree in Addis Ababa University
while still with the military. Then he went to London, got an M.A., came
back, entered politics, but continued studying and eventually earned his Ph.D. only in 2017. And so his rise has been meteoric. And he became prime minister only in April
of 2018. AMNA NAWAZ: This conflict that he’s now being
credited with bringing about to some kind of peace accord, walk me through very basically,
what’s at the heart of that conflict between these two nations? SALIH BOOKER: Well, the short history is that
Ethiopia annexed Eritrea, which was a former Italian colony, in 1962. And that began the beginning of a three-decade
armed struggle to topple first the monarchy of Emperor Haile Selassie and then the regime
of Mengistu followed Selassie. So when the Eritrean People’s Liberation Front,
along with the coalition of Ethiopian rebels, toppled the Mengistu regime in ’91, the Eritreans
pushed for independence. They had a referendum backed by the U.N. in
’93. And the vast majority voted for independence. The countries split, stayed on good terms,
but, five years later, they were at war. And, at the time, people said, well, this
is a ridiculous war. It’s the equivalent of two bald men fighting
over a comb. It wasn’t about strategic resources. It was very much about the egos and the national
pride of these two leaders, who had been friends and allies during the struggle, but who were
trying to assert who was going to be the primary new generation of African leaders. AMNA NAWAZ: And these two nations sort of
stayed in this state of not really at war, not really at peace. But with this peace accord that Prime Minister
Abiy was able to bring forward, it’s not without criticism, even with the prize today. Some people say, look, across the border in
Eritrea, there is still repression. Does this Peace Prize come too early? What do you think? SALIH BOOKER: Well, I don’t think it comes
too early. And I think it’s deserved and it’s also aspirational,
or to encourage the peace process; 100,000 people died in the first two years of that
conflict, and then it was a cold war. But the stubbornness of both sides prevented
any resolution. Prime Minister Abiy, within his first 100
days, he traveled to Eritrea. He accepted the rulings of the U.N.-backed
commission. He returned territory to Eritrea, and creating
this incredible peace and restoration of ties between these two countries. He cannot be held responsible for the internal
reforms that need to happen in Eritrea. What he’s done is removed the rationale for
the Eritrean government to continue its repressive and restrictive rule. The people of Eritrea are going to be demanding
the kind of reforms they see happening in Ethiopia under Prime Minister Abiy right now. AMNA NAWAZ: So, this hopefully leads to continued
path towards more peace for both nations. SALIH BOOKER: Yes, indeed. AMNA NAWAZ: Salih Booker, always good to have
you here. Thank you. SALIH BOOKER: Thank you. JUDY WOODRUFF: Susan Rice is best known for
serving in high-profile roles in the Obama administration, first as the U.S. ambassador
to the United Nations, and then as the president’s national security adviser. But her new book, “Tough Love: My Story of
the Things Worth Fighting For,” reveals her personal side, a working mom raising young
kids and caring for her parents, all while navigating some of the country’s toughest
foreign policy and national security issues. And Susan Rice joins me now. Welcome to the “NewsHour.” SUSAN RICE, Former U.S. National Security
Adviser: It’s great to be with you, Judy. JUDY WOODRUFF: So, I do want to ask you about
the book, but there’s a whole lot in the news right now that relate to an area where you
spent a lot of time, and that’s the White House. And I want to ask you about what’s going on
in Syria. President Trump spoke to President Erdogan
of Turkey, essentially agreed that U.S. troops in Northern Syria would get out of the way. Turkey saw that as a green light. They have come into Syria. But now the Trump administration is saying,
well, we are going to put sanctions on you if you go too far. What do you make of this strategy? How do you think the Turks will respond? SUSAN RICE: Well, first of all, I’m not sure
what our strategy is, Judy. I mean, it’s quite disturbing. We have sold out the Kurds, who fought on
our behalf against ISIS with our support. This was a very unusual and economic arrangement
that we made, where the United States’ contribution was very low in terms of personnel on the
ground. We provided training and advice and support
to the Kurds, who were taking the fight to ISIS, quite effectively. The president’s decision to pull out those
American service men and women in Northern Syria was more than a green light. It was a red carpet. And we have seen what the Turks have done. They’re waging a relentless fight, 100,000
people displaced. And now for the administration to turn around
and say, but we really didn’t mean it, strains credulity. JUDY WOODRUFF: Well — and I interviewed this
week Secretary of State Pompeo, who said — after previously saying the Kurds were U.S. allies,
is now saying, yes, they are a threat to Turkey, they are terrorists. That’s the administration’s position now. SUSAN RICE: That’s — you know, think about
that; 11,000 Kurds gave their lives fighting ISIS with the expectation and the promise
from the United States that we would be there for them. We have not viewed these elements of the Kurdish
SDF, the Syrian Democratic Forces, known as the YPG, as people that we believed posed
a terrorist threat to us or others. They were, on the contrary, fighting ISIS
when the Turks wouldn’t. The Turks allowed thousands of ISIS fighters
to flow through Turkey into Syria. And now to hand over the fight to the Turks
and pretend they’re going to take it to ISIS and secure those prisoners is — it’s just
not credible. JUDY WOODRUFF: The other — of course, one
of the other big stories we’re following right now, the impeachment inquiry into President
Trump. As part of that inquiry, the former ambassador,
U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, is testifying today, part of a subpoena by the Congress. And we know that she has said that her firing,
she said, was after President Trump wanted her out of that job for many months, and she
said it was all based on false claims, she said, by people with questionable motives. My question, though, is, don’t presidents
have the right for whatever reason to have the ambassador they want? SUSAN RICE: Well, yes, of course, the president
appoints ambassadors, and they serve at his pleasure. But you know well and many of our viewers
know that the career ambassadors, the apolitical ambassadors — and that is what Ambassador
Yovanovitch is — are rarely the subject of political scrutiny by the White House. So this raises a lot of questions. And it suggests that whatever concern the
White House had about Yovanovitch or that Rudy Giuliani had wasn’t about her job performance. It had something to do with whatever interests,
business or political, that the president was pursuing in Ukraine, and, apparently,
she stood in the way of them. JUDY WOODRUFF: You write in the book — and
we said, “Tough Love,” it’s about your life, your work in the Obama administration — about
failure. You write at one point: “We did fail, we will
fail. Our aim has to be to minimize the frequency
and the price of failures.” How do you contrast the failures of the Obama
administration with the criticisms you’re making now of the Trump administration? SUSAN RICE: Well, In the first instance, I
was speaking about the business of making foreign policy broadly, not — wasn’t referring
to any particularly administration. But I’m also quite candid about where I think,
in my experience, we succeeded and where we failed in the Obama administration. I think the Obama administration’s record
is a very positive one, when you weigh it in the aggregate. The president of the United States helped
to right the global economy in the wake of a financial crisis. He took the fight to Osama bin Laden. He got the Paris climate agreement, the Iran
nuclear agreement. But we had very difficult challenges in places
like Syria and elsewhere. So, I don’t know of any administration’s record
that — where they bat 1000. But I think that the lesson is, we have to
be willing to serve to the best of our abilities in the interests of the U.S. government. And what I’m so concerned about, as I look
at this administration, is now we’re seeing every day more evidence that the actions coming
out of the president and the White House are not serving the national interest, however
well-guided or misguided, but rather serving the personal interests of the president. JUDY WOODRUFF: You at one point write about
the — you, of course, write about the 2016 election. As we know, the intelligence community has
now concluded with great confidence Russians did interfere. Meantime, the Trump administration is pointing
fingers at the Obama administration, saying — saying, quite frankly, you folks should
have done something to stop it. You do write that your administration — and
I’m quoting — substantially underestimated the severity of Russian social media manipulation. How big a mistake was that? SUSAN RICE: Well, it was a mistake, in the
sense that we didn’t have that information at the time. It came to light, as you will recall, beginning
in 2017, the extent to which their social media farms, the bots, the actions that they
took on both sides of contentious issues, including race, including immigration, guns,
and gay rights. So we didn’t see that. It wasn’t as visible as the hacking of the
e-mails, the efforts to infiltrate the election systems, and the activities that were more
transparent of Russian television and Sputnik and the like. So, if you look at the intelligence community’s
assessment that came in January of 2017, it’s notable because it doesn’t mention the social
media influence, as we understand it now. So that was a gap in our understanding. Now we know it. And I think the challenge is, what more can
we do about it? And I think there’s more that Congress can
do, quite frankly. There’s more that the social media companies
can and must do. JUDY WOODRUFF: You do write with candor in
the book about your family, your — both your parents and your two children, your husband. And one of the things that struck me is, you
— in writing about the country’s political divisions, you write about how they exist
in your own family. You have a son who is very conservative in
his political beliefs. How do you navigate that as a family? And what advice do you have for I’m sure people
who are watching who have deep political divisions in their own families? SUSAN RICE: Well, I appreciate the question. We have two kids. The older one is quite conservative. The younger one is a progressive, closer to
the views of her parents. And we have robust discussions. We raised our children to think independently
and to be confident in their views. And, for better or for worse, that’s what
we got. But we’re quite proud of both of our kids. They have the courage of their convictions. And they’re not afraid to be engaged on issues
that matter. And so how do I — what is my advice? My advice is, we have to listen to each other. We have to respect each other’s views. We have got to search for common ground and
not close one another out. We are a family that, despite our differences,
is very tight. We love each other. And we have decided, very deliberately, that
that love and our commitment to the family is going to override our political differences. And that’s what we need to do, quite frankly,
Judy, on a national basis. We can’t take the view that, because you and
I disagree over politics or religion, or whatever it is, that we’re dismissing each other as
Americans. If that happens, our country’s going to fall
apart. And there are people who are benefiting politically
from pulling us apart. We, as Americans, can’t allow that to happen. We have got to have the same sort of fierce
love of our country and tough love, as I like to say in the book, that we try to apply in
the family context, challenging as it sometimes is. JUDY WOODRUFF: Susan Rice. The book is, as we say, “Tough Love: My Story
of the Things Worth Fighting For.” Susan Rice, thank you. SUSAN RICE: Thank you. JUDY WOODRUFF: It is not easy to keep up with
all the twists and turns of another turbulent week in the Trump presidency. But to help make sense of it all, joining
us are Shields and Brooks. That is syndicated columnist Mark Shields
and New York Times columnist David Brooks. Hello to both of you. MARK SHIELDS: Judy. JUDY WOODRUFF: So it’s been a tumultuous week. We — at the beginning of the week, President
Trump, David, basically says to Turkey, we’re getting U.S. troops out of the way in Syria. The Turks have gone in. They are going after the Kurds, who were American
allies. But just in the last day or so, the president
has said, but don’t go too far to Turkey. What are we to make of all this? DAVID BROOKS: Yes, welcome in, but we don’t
want you there. No, it’s incoherence. It’s complete incoherence. I think Donald Trump — the logical thing
is, Donald Trump spoke to somebody on the phone, he made a decision. It was a terrible decision, an immoral decision,
and just bad for our foreign policy. I mean, who’s going to fight ISIS, or I.S.,
if we’re out? Who’s going to guard the 10,000 prisoners
who the Kurds — we have been relying on the Kurds to guard? And the Kurds are going to turn to Russia
or Iran or somebody. And so it will further strengthen Russia and
Iran. So it’s a terrible decision. And then they get a little bad publicity,
the administration does, and so then Mnuchin and various other people in the administration
come out and say, oh, this is terrible. And so it’s not a foreign policy. It’s a foreign policy by what Donald Trump’s
latest emotion is. JUDY WOODRUFF: Is it a foreign policy, Mark? MARK SHIELDS: Yes. No, Judy, it’s absolutely incoherent. What I would add to David’s analysis, which
is I agree with, is that he did it after being played by Mr. Erdogan, the president of Turkey. He once again succumbed to the either the
blandishments of the muscles of strongmen. He cannot stand up to strongmen. He did it without any warning to the Kurds. The Turks knew about it, but the Kurds didn’t,
11,000 of whom gave their lives shoulder to shoulder with the United States and against
ISIS. And it’s rather remarkable. Then the president, in probably a new flight
of fatuousness, said, well, the Kurds hadn’t been there at Normandy. So, today, we sent 3,000 American troops to
Saudi Arabia, who, of course, on the beaches of Normandy played such a major part. (LAUGHTER) MARK SHIELDS: And we find out that… DAVID BROOKS: “Saving Private Ahmed,” I remember
that. (LAUGHTER) MARK SHIELDS: That’s exactly — that’s exactly
right. But, I mean, it isn’t incoherence. It is foolishness. And it is dangerous. And it’s recklessness. And I feel for the country. JUDY WOODRUFF: And, David, I mean, in terms
of the congressional reaction, it’s not just Democrats, but Republicans who are really
upset about this. How do we read this political reaction? DAVID BROOKS: Yes, Lindsey Graham, Mitch McConnell,
pretty much up and down the line. And I think that a couple things. First, it’s easy to part with Donald Trump
on something like Kurds. It’s a lot different than impeachment. It doesn’t arouse the tribal passions of red
vs. blue. Second, it may help Donald Trump in the long
run. When the time comes whether you’re to stand
with Trump or not on impeachment, Republican senators say, I’m perfectly independent of
Trump. Didn’t you hear what I just said about Kurdistan? And so, in some sense, it may rebound back
and make it a little easier, marginally easier, for some Republicans to side with Trump when
it comes to the impeachment. MARK SHIELDS: I’m not sure it’ll make it easier,
because I think, Judy, events are happening so fast right now, that it might be a tough
vote to vote against impeachment. Certainly, if we have another week like this
week, Republicans who are back in their district coming back to Washington next Monday — and
I don’t think there’s any question that the president’s position has deteriorated in that
week. JUDY WOODRUFF: And I want to ask you about
that. But just quickly in terms of Turkey and the
changing positions… MARK SHIELDS: And as far as the Republicans,
I agree with David. It doesn’t involve his behavior. It doesn’t involve his character or his conduct. He — that is off ground. I mean, Mitt Romney made a — made a criticism
of the president’s position as far as China was concerned and asking them to investigate
Joe Biden. He called him a pompous ass. That’s a way of saying that the base will
come after you if you criticize me. And I agree. He depersonalizes — depersonalizes the criticism
of the Kurds. JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, you both are talking
about impeachment. It is the — it’s the 1,000-pound gorilla
in the room right now. David, a lot of events this week. Today, you had the behind-closed-doors testimony
of the former ambassador, Yovanovitch, who said the president personally was trying to
get rid of her. You had — you have had a number of subpoenas
go out and requests that basically the administration is saying no to. Yesterday, you had two associates of Rudy
Giuliani, the president’s lawyer, arrested for campaign finance law violations. Does this impeachment process, does it look
stronger, as Mark is saying, at the end of the week, or what? I mean…. DAVID BROOKS: Yes, for sure. It doesn’t look weaker. I mean, every day, it’s a blizzard of something. The Yovanovitch thing today, it made me think
like, how many other people are involved in this? Because, to fire an ambassador, you can’t
just do it president to ambassador. The whole senior echelon of the State Department
has to be involved in some way in the firing of a credible, competent ambassador for political
reasons. I mean, how often does that happen without
— with no resignations? In a normal administration, you get a bunch
of resignations when — if that would ever happen, which it wouldn’t. So, to me — I mean, Mark made a — made the
right — directed our attention to the right thing, the blizzard. It’s like a blizzard of things. And how does that affect the mood? Does it affect the mood? It’s clearly solidified Democrats behind impeachment. It’s clearly moved independents toward it. JUDY WOODRUFF: Right. DAVID BROOKS: Has it cracked the red wall
and affected Republicans? And so far I don’t see that. So far, when you look at the conservative
press, the conservative talking, the polls, the Republicans are not moving. And they have to move, because you have to
lose 20 Republicans. And so you would really have to have a very
split Republican Party, 50/50 on impeachment. And so far, I don’t see that happening. But that’s not to say it couldn’t. JUDY WOODRUFF: And, in fact, we can quickly
show a couple of polls, Mark. A shift in support overall is just within
the margin of error, 49-52, over the course of two weeks. But when you look at independent voters, as
David was just suggesting, it’s a 10-point shift in favor of an inquiry. We’re still not talking about impeachment,
removing the president. MARK SHIELDS: Right. JUDY WOODRUFF: We’re talking about the inquiry. But what does it look like to you? I mean, is this significant that we’re seeing… MARK SHIELDS: I think the poll — the polls
can’t keep up with the events. Events are very much in the saddle. I mean, we started — the call — what the
defense was of the president’s call to the president of Ukraine, the president, it turned
out, was — we didn’t know, was a closet reformer. He was just out to dig out corruption. Well, the corruption that’s turned up now
are two of Rudy Giuliani’s associates in this whole imbroglio, which I think is significant,
because the indictment was announced by the U.S. attorney, and a Trump appointee, a Republican,
Geoffrey Berman, Southern District of New York, and the director of the FBI, William
Sweeney, in the New York office. And the U.S. attorney went out of his way
to congratulate and thank each of the FBI agents. Why is that significant? Because one of the criticisms from stalwarts
of the president off and on like Ron Johnson, the senator from Wisconsin, is that somehow
the FBI and the CIA are faulty in this whole thing. Judy, I don’t think there’s any question that
we have gone from that to the president was just kidding about China. We know him. He’s renowned for his one-liners, which you
could write on the back of a first-class stamp, the totality of them. I mean, every — it’s a tissue of lies, all
of which is collapsing. And as one leading Republican said to me just
before the show, there is nothing in here that’s good news, and what I’m worried about
now are retirements. You will start to see retirements among Republicans
as they come back from the break. JUDY WOODRUFF: And there have already been
a number of… (CROSSTALK) JUDY WOODRUFF: … Republicans. MARK SHIELDS: That’s right. DAVID BROOKS: But that doesn’t mean they’re
breaking. Even Lamar Alexander, who’s retiring, senator
from Tennessee, is not — not breaking… JUDY WOODRUFF: On the question of the inquiry. (CROSSTALK) MARK SHIELDS: And I will bet — I will be
willing to bet you a number of Republicans in the House will vote for it. DAVID BROOKS: That could be, in the House,
yes. MARK SHIELDS: Yes. Yes. DAVID BROOKS: Yes, that could be. But you have got to have mass defection. And you have got to have basically two things. One, it’s got to really penetrate into the
popular mind. A lot of these things are very little things
that are in D.C. That’s — low-information voters, normal people,
normal human beings are not paying this close attention. MARK SHIELDS: I agree. DAVID BROOKS: And then you have got to undo
the basic bargain that a lot of Republicans did. This guy’s a snake, but my life is going bad. My community is going bad. He was a snake when I signed on. He’s still a snake. But my essential bargain still holds. And, so far, I don’t see a lot of Republicans
saying, I’m going to undo that bargain. JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, meanwhile, there is a
race for the Democratic nomination for president, Mark. You still have almost 20 Democrats in the
race. There’s going to be another debate next week. MARK SHIELDS: Right. JUDY WOODRUFF: We have learned in the last
week Bernie Sanders still not out on the campaign trail, after the heart attack that he had. And he is starting to talk to the press a
little bit. But does all of this focus on impeachment,
does it work to the Democrats’ benefit or not? Because we still don’t know who the Democratic
nominee is going to be. MARK SHIELDS: No, we don’t know. And we don’t know what influence this will
have upon it, Judy. I mean, the Democrats better just confront
the reality that they’re about defeating Donald Trump. And they — the old aphorism is, Republicans
fall in line, Democrats fall in love. That’s necessary for the candidates. So it’s, historically, Republicans have dominated
the next in line, next whose turn it was. And Democrats can’t afford just a flight of
passion in 2020. They better pick somebody, if they’re really
interested in defeating Donald Trump, someone who is not going to become the issue himself
or herself in that campaign. And I think that’s — I think that’s a concern
for Democrats at this point, especially as impeachment becomes larger. JUDY WOODRUFF: And who would that be who you’re
referring to? (CROSSTALK) MARK SHIELDS: Who would I refer to? No, far be it for me to say. I’d say Bennet or Bullock right now, if you’re
picking — looking for people who have good records and have won in purple or red states. DAVID BROOKS: Yes. I think it overshadows the — impeachment
overshadows the campaign in the extreme. I mean, we’re barely talking about the campaign
in the last few weeks. And this impeachment is going to go on through
New Hampshire and Iowa and South Carolina and maybe California. So it’s going to overshadow the campaign. And I think that benefits the front-runners,
the Bidens and the Warrens, because it’s super hard, let alone — it’s hard for the front-runners
to get attention now. If you’re in the middle pack, if you’re in
Cory Booker or Kamala Harris or Pete Buttigieg, it’s super hard to get attention. And it seems to me it makes it just much,
much harder to shake up the race. MARK SHIELDS: I would remind that the only
nominees have either finished in the top three in Iowa or the top two in New Hampshire. That’s how important those two states are. I don’t think there’s any question about it. And I think — I think that’s central to this
choice as far as going — those are political universes unto themselves. And I don’t think — it really does freeze
the race there. I think it dominates the dialogue and the
debate certainly nationally. JUDY WOODRUFF: But in just less than a minute
that we have left, how do these Democrats distinguish themselves from one another when… (CROSSTALK) DAVID BROOKS: Well, think of what we were
talking about three weeks ago. We were talking about single-payer vs. other
plans. MARK SHIELDS: Right. JUDY WOODRUFF: Right. DAVID BROOKS: We were having the debates that
Republican — the Democrats were having on policy. And now that’s all been sucked up by Adam
Schiff, Nancy Pelosi, the congressional Democrats. And so I think it does deteriorate the quality
of the presidential debate. They can’t distinguish themselves on impeachment. It’s like, yes, I’m against that, too. I mean, I’m for that too. JUDY WOODRUFF: And they’re all for that. MARK SHIELDS: Yes. And I would say that Biden has been given
the greatest gift, I mean, because Biden can make the case that, lookit, Donald Trump put
at risk his own presidency, he’s risked impeachment because he was so worried, so concerned and
so scared of me that he went to the president of the Ukraine. JUDY WOODRUFF: You think it helps Biden? MARK SHIELDS: Well, if Biden plays it right. I mean, who does Donald Trump — you have
got the evidence right there. Donald Trump was terrified of Joe Biden, because
he wants to find information. He’s trying to go to China. He’s sending Bill Barr around the world. He’s got Rudy Giuliani talking to everybody,
out of “Goodfellas,” I mean, really. I mean, so that’s the case he ought to be
making. JUDY WOODRUFF: Biden is helped? DAVID BROOKS: I think it’s also in the way
that it freezes the race. I think it does freeze the race, and he’s
on top with Warren right now. JUDY WOODRUFF: All right, we’re going to leave
it there. David Brooks, Mark Shields, thank you. JUDY WOODRUFF: Let’s now take a trek to a
destination for art and music in rural Montana. The Tippet Rise Art Center, which recently
wrapped up its fourth summer season, is home to stunning sculptures, architecture, classical
music, all surrounded by wonders of nature. Its visitors are a mix of locals and art lovers
from around the world. Jeffrey Brown has that story. It’s part of our ongoing arts and culture
coverage, Canvas. JEFFREY BROWN: Underneath a wooden pavilion,
a violinist draws her bow. Nearby, kids marvel at a sculpture called
Daydreams, where willows twist around an old schoolhouse. And all around, hikers and bikers follow miles
of trails. This is the Tippet Rise Art Center, unexpected,
hard to find. From tiny Fishtail in Southern Montana, a
dirt road cuts through the hillside, passing ranches and farmland, the Beartooth Mountains
in the distance. It’s just 4 years old, but Tippet Rise is
an ongoing experiment in bringing together nature and art, a place where the world-class
sculptures and the music become part of a spectacular rural setting. The center was founded by philanthropists
Cathy and Peter Halstead, globe-trotting art lovers who searched high and low for a property
that felt just right. PETER HALSTEAD, Co-Founder, Tippet Rise Art
Center: We love museums. We have spent our life going to museums. But art is, in some ways, a prisoner of a
museum, whereas, here, it’s liberated. It’s freed. CATHY HALSTEAD, Co-Founder, Tippet Rise Art
Center: The land is very emotional, and there is something about being on this land. The first second I was on it, I could feel
it viscerally, and really had a sense that it was almost like a trembling. JEFFREY BROWN: The art center they have created
is on a 12,000-acre working ranch. It’s home to large outdoor sculptures, including
Satellite #5: Pioneer, a web of yellow cedar and steel created by Stephen Talasnik. Beethoven’s Quartet, a 25,000-pound piece
by Mark di Suvero, and works by the Ensamble Studio, Inverted Portal and Beartooth Portal,
featuring giant formations leaning against one another, and Domo, which was designed
acoustically to host outdoor concerts. But most of the music is performed here at
the Olivier Music Barn, with a high pitched roof and windows that overlook the Beartooths. On this day, pianist Aristo Sham played works
by Robert Schumann and Johannes Brahms. Originally from Hong Kong, Sham has performed
on five continents. Is this normal as a setting, or unusual for
you? ARISTO SHAM, Pianist: This is quite unusual. Even summer festivals in ski resorts are more
urban. JEFFREY BROWN: Right. ARISTO SHAM: Yes. And for this to be like literally in the middle
of nowhere is quite unique. It’s like, where do you even find an audience? But everything is sold out. JEFFREY BROWN: In fact, seating here is so
limited, just 150 for a concert, and the price of a ticket so low, just $10, that demand
quickly outstripped availability. Determined to stay small-scale, the center
now doles out tickets through a lottery system. It’s part of the paradox of Tippet Rise, offering
a sense of exclusiveness, but being open to all, a destination for well-off art patrons
from around the world, while also welcoming in locals. PETER HALSTEAD: It’s the opposite of elitism. It’s — really, it’s open to all who are clever
enough or lucky enough to somehow get a ticket to our performances. BETH KORTH, Tippet Rise Art Center: We had
a student, it was his very first time at Tippet Rise. And he just said: “Wow. Am I in Montana anymore?” (LAUGHTER) JEFFREY BROWN: Beth Korth is the art education
coordinator at Tippet Rise. The center hosts youth groups ranging from
college honors students to elementary age children, such as this group from rural Carbon
County, who toured the sculptures, got an up-close look at instruments, and made their
own lanterns out of jars. Clara Bernhart is from nearby Red Lodge. Did you like coming here? CLARA BERNHART, Montana: Yes, I liked all
the music. JEFFREY BROWN: You liked the music? CLARA BERNHART: The piano — the piano, and
the fort in the houses, that was super cool. BETH KORTH: Having a world class art center
with these incredible sculptures from world-renowned artists, bringing in incredible classical
musicians, having some structures here built by some of the most incredible architects
I know, being able to bring in rural children to come and experience this, even for a couple
of hours one day out of the summer, I think is tremendous to this community. JOHN LUTHER ADAMS, Composer: The music is
not completed until it’s received by you. JEFFREY BROWN: That same weekend, Pulitzer
Prize-winning composer John Luther Adams debuted a new work, “Lines Made By Walking,” performed
by the JACK string quartet. He composed much of the piece, a commission
from Tippet, while in residence here last summer, inspired, he said, by long walks on
the grounds. JOHN LUTHER ADAMS: In recent years, I have
been making music intended from the get-go to be experienced out of doors. And I have come to understand, especially
those outdoor works, as a kind of echolocation or GPS, a way of — music as a way of helping
us hear and feel more deeply, and more broadly where we are on this earth. So it’s my hope that somebody from a ranch
nearby may come and hear this lyrical response to these hills, to this land that is their
home, and go back out and hear it and see it a little differently. JEFFREY BROWN: Jim Mandeville, from Columbus,
Montana, is one local who heard the call. JIM MANDEVILLE, Montana: The tickets are hard
to get, so it’s kind of like it’s exclusive, but it’s not exclusive. JEFFREY BROWN: Of the out-of-towners, he says
this: JIM MANDEVILLE: If they’re from California,
and they get into the lottery, like everyone else has to get, and get their tickets and
plan their vacation around coming to Tippet Rise, I think that’s marvelous. It brings them into our country. And they get to see it, enjoy it, and then
go home. (LAUGHTER) JEFFREY BROWN: And for those who can’t or
won’t make the trek here, state-of-the-art recordings of the concerts, free online, offer
easier access. For the “PBS NewsHour,” I’m Jeffrey Brown
at the Tippet Rise Art Center in Fishtail, Montana. JUDY WOODRUFF: Jeffrey Brown gets to go to
all the best places. We are so envious. And that is the “NewsHour” for tonight. I’m Judy Woodruff. Have a great weekend. Thank you, and good night.

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